From Lindsey:
In this unconventional, AI-supported episode, I explore the paradox of making a podcast about not making podcasts. This meta-creation delves into the ways neurodivergent rhythms, energy, and sensory needs challenge the fast-paced, performance-heavy world of content creation.
By using AI (NotebookLM by Google) to support thought organization, pacing, and production, this episode becomes both a reflection and an act of self-advocacy. It's not about giving up—it's about redefining what creative expression looks like when it centers neurocomplexity.
Tune in for a gentle, intentional space where absence is presence, and quiet is power.
Should I create more of these?
Summary by the Hosts:
Lindsey Mackereth, a licensed therapist specializing in neurodivergent and gifted adults, has coined the term "Neurocomplexity" to describe minds that process information across multiple registers simultaneously and nonlinearly. Despite receiving numerous invitations, she consistently declines podcast guest appearances. Her essay, "Why This Neurocomplex Therapist Won't Do Podcasts," articulates a fundamental structural mismatch between the typical podcast format, which privileges fast, linear, verbal communication, and the lived experience and communication needs of neurocomplex individuals. Mackereth argues that participating in this format requires self-abandonment and a departure from authentic expression, as her primary modes of processing and communication are non-verbal, multimodal, and require spaciousness and nonlinearity. She proposes design challenges for podcast creators to make the medium more accessible to neurocomplex guests and is exploring asynchronous and collaborative formats for future public engagement.
Key Themes and Important Ideas/Facts:
Neurocomplexity Defined:
Mackereth introduces the term "Neurocomplexity" as a way to describe minds that "move across multiple registers—intellectual, emotional, sensory, relational—often simultaneously and nonlinearly."
These minds "resist simplification," "loop, layer, and interweave," and "use metaphor instead of definitions."
Examples of neurocomplex minds include those who are "autistic, ADHD, gifted, dyslexic, trauma-responsive, emotionally asynchronous, or shaped by non-normative learning environments."
Crucially, Mackereth emphasizes, "Neurocomplexity is not a pathology. It is a mode of sense-making."
Critique of the Typical Podcast Format:
Mackereth identifies a "structural mismatch between the typical podcast format and the lived experience of neurocomplex, trauma-aware, and multimodal minds."
She states, "The podcast format, as currently constructed, caters to this dominant mode [fast, verbal, polished, sequential, and readily consumable]. And for those of us who exist elsewhere it often fails to meet us."
Verbal Language as a Secondary Mode:
Mackereth asserts, "My first language is not verbal. This is not a metaphor. It is a statement about how I encode and decode the world."
Her thinking occurs in "textures, visuals, interoception, gesture, relational context. Words come second, after internal translation."
Podcast participation requires reversing this process, forcing her to "begin with words" and move linearly, leading to a "widens [gap] between internal knowing and verbal expression." This results in her having to "simplify, flatten, override," and the act of speaking becoming "an act of departure from my own truth."
The Absence of Gesture and Multimodality:
Mackereth highlights the importance of gesture in her communication, describing it as a "native language" and a "semantic carrier."
In audio-only podcasts, this "entire dimension disappears," collapsing her capacity to communicate fully.
When gesture is removed, she feels she is "no longer speaking in my language. I am performing in someone else’s."
Speed and Linearity Distort Integration:
The "subtle, unspoken metric" of podcasts is to "keep it moving," favoring fast and fluent speech as a marker of credibility.
However, for neurocomplex minds, "truth doesn’t always move like that. Meaning arrives in waves. Insights take shape slowly. Stories are not always chronological."
Her nonlinear thought process ("circling around a question," "reaching back into emotional memory," "using analogy or metaphor") is often "edited out. Or misunderstood. Or rushed over."
When forced into this structure, she bypasses deeper thought processes and answers from the "surface, rather than the center," leading to communication that "may sound convincing—but it is no longer anchored."
Performance vs. Presence:
Podcasting is a "performative space," demanding guests appear "articulate, responsive, composed."
For those whose communication is "relational, co-regulated, and interdependent," this demand for "independent fluency" can be exhausting and "dangerous," leading to "perform[ing] presence—rather than inhabit[ing] it."
Mackereth describes instances where she was overwhelmed or dissociating but maintained the appearance of coherence, stating, "This is not authenticity. This is survival."
Containment and Consent as Somatic Realities:
Mackereth emphasizes that "safety is not just conceptual—it is somatic" for many neurodivergent individuals.
The lack of containment and control in the podcast format (unexpected questions, lack of revision options) can disrupt her nervous system and lead to "internal rupture."
Without the assurance of being able to slow down, return, and metabolize exposure, she remains "braced," which is "incompatible with truth-telling."
Redesigning the Invitation:
Mackereth views her refusal as a "design challenge" for podcast creators, not a rejection of their work or values.
She suggests alternative formats such as:
Pre-recorded thoughtful responses.
Integrating video, gesture, and visual support.
Offering written transcripts with annotations or expansions.
Asynchronous exchanges (letters, dialogue, essays).
Reframing "performance" as "process," allowing for disfluency, silence, or revision.
Future Possibilities and Personal Exploration:
Mackereth is not permanently closed to public dialogue and is exploring ways to engage while honoring her "integrity and nervous system."
This includes "Experimenting with Asynchronous Expression," "Mapping My Communication Ecology," and "Collaborating on Format Innovation" with values-aligned creators.
She is "tending to the gap—not by pushing myself to conform, but by slowly shaping new conditions in which participation could one day be possible without self-abandonment."
Fidelity and Translation of Form:
Mackereth concludes by emphasizing that her choice is about "fidelity" to how she thinks, works, and serves her community.
She highlights that "accessibility is not a checkbox—it is a relationship" and "inclusion is not just about invitation—it is about translation of form."
For neurocomplex individuals, "communication must be designed to hold what cannot be said all at once."
Significance:
Lindsey Mackereth's perspective offers a critical insight into the accessibility limitations of prevalent communication formats, particularly for neurocomplex individuals. Her concept of "Neurocomplexity" provides a valuable framework for understanding the diverse ways minds process information and communicate. Her detailed explanation of why the typical podcast format is incompatible with her neurological reality serves as a powerful call to action for media creators to prioritize inclusive design and explore alternative modalities for sharing knowledge and fostering dialogue. Her work underscores the importance of recognizing and valuing diverse forms of expression beyond linear, verbal fluency.
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